Fuzzy Things in the Corner of the Kitchen
The unspoken sh*t about food. So many topics, so little time.
Commercial kitchens. Restaurants. Chefs. Grocery Stores. TV shows about food. Movies about food. People that like food.
Fuzzy Things in the Corner of the Kitchen
Tales from the Restaurant Trenches: Safety, Success, and Struggles
What happens when a disgruntled employee turns the kitchen into a battleground? Join us as we recount a startling tale from Las Vegas that puts "food terrorism" into focus. This harrowing story is a springboard for examining the high-stakes environment of maintaining food safety under pressure. In a city where dining is an experience and competition is fierce, we dissect the ethical challenges faced by those behind the scenes, navigating the unpredictable chaos of the restaurant industry and the ever-present demand for excellence.
Owning a restaurant is no walk in the park; it’s a relentless parade of legal, safety, and reputation management challenges. Drawing from personal experience as a former restaurant owner, I share insights into the constant battle to keep a business afloat amidst the fear of food safety incidents and the power of reviews. We unravel how small establishments struggle with the weight of public perception and why a single contamination case could spell disaster for them, unlike their larger chain counterparts. The pressure is real, and the stakes are high, especially when faced with the scrutiny of today’s informed consumers.
Adding alcohol to the menu introduces a new layer of complexity to running a restaurant. We explore the unique dynamics of serving drinks, from the logistical challenges to the new crowd it attracts. Hear from seasoned restaurateurs who have navigated these waters, balancing the allure of alcohol with the responsibilities it brings, like ensuring patrons' safety. Whether it’s finding the right suppliers or hiring skilled bartenders, the intricacies of adding a bar element can transform a simple burger joint into a multifaceted dining experience. Discover how collaboration and community ties become invaluable tools in navigating this multifaceted world of restaurant ownership.
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that's totally normal In the restaurant world. That's totally normal. How many days have we walked into the kitchen and we're like, the fuck are we doing today? But sure, we got a plan up on the wall and we got this and we got that. But I mean, this guy called in sick and that one no-showed and the other one is so stoned he can only operate a fryer. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So with that, I don't think that we should go too far. You know, let's just open it up and I mean we, we want to like have an idea of what, obviously topic we are looking to start with or like focus on for the episode, and then eventually, you know, we want to add some segments and stuff, I think, in there that we can count on. Hey, we're going to hit this segment at some point today. And maybe when we feel that little downturn in the conversation, that's when we're just like okay, like yeah, bullet point, let's go through the segment real quick, and that'll kind of yeah, yeah, got it.
Speaker 3:And how long should we record today? How long should our podcast be, because I think the last one went a little too long.
Speaker 2:Last one went a little bit long. Well, last one, though, was like kind of a dual episode, almost Right, because it started off with me commenting on the previous episode and, like we talked about that, kind of continued that for a little while, and then we went into the tipping side of it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of a dual episode. We did last week and then we finished with the meatloaf recipe so we did have the meatloaf recipe finally in there.
Speaker 3:We had a decent amount of plays, though after like 21 hours and we got a good start.
Speaker 1:Maybe we should start this podcast, okay. Anyways, reading an article online and I was like fucking you know, like this reminds me of this thing that I did in Vegas, right. So the article was hey, this guy was tampering with food and he was arrested and I was like he was a fast food worker and when I was lived in Las Vegas I had a work in right after 9-11 jobs, I had gotten laid off from my job and whatever, and it sucks. I took a job at a fast food restaurant and it was right near the strip and there was this cook We'll call him Dave, not his real name, but anyways, dave used to hate this taxi cab driver and the taxi cab driver. They came to blow, pull, pulling him out of the window, what this guy did. Anyway, this cook guy, this taxi cab driver, came through about 11 30 at night. He takes a hamburger because he ordered a burger and rubbed the raw meat all over his nut, right, just gave it a good old rub up the ass, crack and all that other shit, and I'm just like, oh my God. And he's like fuck that guy. This guy's a fucking asshole Every time he comes in. You know, we got to go. We're almost, you know, throwing hands and all this other shit.
Speaker 1:And the place that I fast food restaurant that I worked at it was, they have these huge grills, long grill, and anyway. So the guy goes up to start talking shit to the taxi cab driver. He's like yeah, I got something for you, fuckhead. Blah, blah, blah. And well, accidentally, the grease you know the hoods emit like this really thick grease that had accidentally fallen onto the entire grill and it bubbled and, you know, it just made a mess. So we had to close for half an hour and we had to take everything off the grill and throw it away and some of it had made it into the fryers. We had to, you know, turn off the fryer anyways.
Speaker 1:So after that all happened, you know like, like, what are you going to do? Right, you can't go snitch, because I was the assistant manager, I can't go snitch. You know, obviously we're going to be like, you know you can't do that, you know that's disgusting. But then again, you know, what are you going to do? Are you going to be like, oh, that's against the law. I mean, I'm like right off the strip. The people that are working here are not, you know, those are not the type of people that you're just going to go be like.
Speaker 2:I'm calling the police, right, but that brings up a whole thing uh, when the food plus the plus not to mention it's vegas the police have better shit to deal with exactly right.
Speaker 1:We're not going to call metro in for some stupid thing. That's not provable, but that brought up a good point. The point is is that treatment of food? When, six months later, I talked to the health inspector Let me finish the story real quick and then we'll go back and I'll tell you about it Brought it up to the health inspector, I said, you know, like we had one employee already done Her and I knew each other pretty cool and she goes yeah, that's food terrorism.
Speaker 1:And I'm like food terrorism. And she goes yeah, that's that's legit called food terrorism. And I don't know if she was being funny or she's being smart or or what she was. Well, was she just trying to prove a point or is that just a vegas thing? But I was thinking, and when reading that article just recently, I was like is that really food? You know, yes, it's food terrorism, because you're ampering with the food with the object of causing harm to the person that's going to eat it. Yes, I agree with that. Is there such a thing, though? And you know this is 2001. I really didn't. You know, I'm not going to go hop on Google, because it really wasn't even around, right, didn't you know? I'm not gonna go hop on google because it really wasn't even around right. So, which is curious, like and I probably should have did it before this podcast. But I was like is that we know what food terrorism is defined by her? Is that a real thing? And, you know, could people be charged with that?
Speaker 2:I would imagine, though, like the term food terrorism is probably something they use internally with like the health department, like it's probably not like a realistic charge.
Speaker 1:But should it be? Well, yeah, I mean what is it assault? Is it attempted assault? I mean tampering with food. I'm not trying to say let's go get all this into law, but isn't that kind of what it is, though, on a basic level? Aren't you terrorizing somebody through their food?
Speaker 2:So I just looked it up the definition of food terrorism. So it's defined as an act or threat of deliberate contamination of food for human consumption's defined as an act or threat of deliberate contamination of food for human consumption with chemical, biological or radionuclear agents for the purpose of causing injury or death to civilian populations and or disrupting social, economic or political stability. So but I guess the caveat to that is that definition sounds more like it's what it's used in a broader sense, like to affect a population base, not like an individual as much. But I mean, theoretically it's the same act, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it probably should be applied to an individual.
Speaker 1:If somebody's doing something on purpose to try to do another person harm, that would be terrorism, I would say, and in that respect, but I think it's more along the lines also that the person that's receiving it doesn't even know, because you're behind doors, you're behind the walls, you're in the kitchen or whatever.
Speaker 2:I think it's more along the lines of like, almost like a poisoning charge, like an assault charge, poisoning something like that. When it's like an individualized things, terrorism is usually used in a sense that, like you're promoting the terror of like a population, right like there's supposed to be, like a mental scare you know or fear that you're instilling into the population.
Speaker 2:That's where like terror comes from so it's more of like a threat has to be involved if you did something, where now the next like people that go to that drive-thru are worried that they're going to receive also that same like treatment, right?
Speaker 1:right. But if you, but technically, if you are in a cook's position and you're serving the population everybody that comes through the population and you're tampering with their food to the extent of you were intentionally making them stick yeah, isn't that it? You're terrorizing a population.
Speaker 2:Not to go back to your story, I'm not sure what exactly comes of rubbing it on balls, and if there's really a sickness, that's just one of the, of course.
Speaker 1:We all think about it. We're like, fuck that guy, everybody has those customers. Anybody listening to this podcast and anybody out there in the world has got some horrible customer service experience. Like, yeah, everybody has one. And you do think of murder, death, kill. You don't go do it, but yeah, I think I know I haven't played that game. Oh man, you get some of those customers and you're just like, man, I want to choke the shit out of this. This person right here just reach across counter, want to choke the shit out of them.
Speaker 2:You know we all have nowadays too many cameras everything is recorded right, unlike the 80s and 90s and early 2000s that's when you get in with the manager and then, like, the manager tells cops, I don't know what happened, we just got our DVR stolen, apparently recently.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then pray to God, corporate office doesn't have it and they have a backup of a backup of a backup, anyways, yeah, so you know, just food for thought, right. So that just I was reading it and I was like, yeah, is that like food? Terrorism? Is that like wheel? But apparently it is. So now the definition and how they apply it. Right, it's all about the application of the law. That's two different things. But I'm just, you know, just kind of weird, weird little thoughts, right, I was like, oh yeah, that one guy, like he intentionally did it, that actually makes me interested.
Speaker 2:Obviously I could look up, see if I can find examples, but I'm curious like what food terrorism charges might have been brought in the past like, because it does sound like it's one of those like you're purposely contaminating with like right, something like. But I kind of curious what has happened in the past? Has that been like a big thing that's been out in the news at all like?
Speaker 1:yeah, we should. We should look it up in las vegas, because if the health department, if the inspector for the southern nevada health district actually said that to me, then I then, just as you said, they use, use that internally. So I wonder if it's ever been applied. And if it has been applied, what did they do right? And if, what did they do? What was the punishment? So is it like selective? Is it we're just going to do a poster child, because Las Vegas is all tourism? You do not want that going around a city that's based on tourism. I get it. What about the rest of us, the rest of the country? Is that really a thing? Has it ever been applied? So, yeah, you know what? Let's follow up on the next podcast about that. Briefly touch on it.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, speaking to that, we won't talk about food terrorism Anytime. You hold kind of like a siege on a population where you're denying entry of, like you know, food and and drinks water, whatever like that's. That could be considered food terrorism as well, true, yeah, like on a global stage a lot you talk about wars that break out and such. Obviously that's not down to the restaurant size that we're talking about, but I would say that still qualifies. It has something to do with what's going on over in the Middle East right now. Right.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly when you have a starving population and you're holding them hostage with food and water for whatever reasons you have, yeah, I think that's just a crime in and of itself. I mean, that has to be a crime, right? A humanitarian crime, right, let's just skip all that and then we'll just go back to. Let's follow up with the food terrorism. Yeah, let's you know what. Let's see what we can do, or let's see what we can find out, because I'm I'm pretty curious now.
Speaker 3:And next time I'll do a little research. Well, you know, when you run a restaurant, though, there's so many different laws that apply, totally different than just having a regular business. You have food safety and you know the fact that you could make a ton of people sick, either on purpose or accidental.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a lot of, that's a big burden, and you know, people getting into the restaurant industry should really think about it before they venture down that rabbit hole I just I just quickly googled just to throw a couple of these out here, just a couple like us based cases and like so one of the more recent ones that's like kind of on here is like 2003 says there was a michigan supermarket employee that intentionally contaminated 200 pounds of ground beef with nicotine so he ended up making like 92 people sick. One of the other ones, in 96, a laboratory employee contaminated some pastries with dysentery type 2, and he made 12 people sick 84.
Speaker 1:That's all en masse, though he did one batch of food that made multiple people sick. It's not the guy in the fast food restaurant making patties and making individually sick. Is that what that is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly what it sounds like. And that's kind of what I was leaning into as well is I think it has to affect a larger population.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Against one individual.
Speaker 1:So it's taking bullcrotter, contaminating it and then making people sick en masse. That's what, okay.
Speaker 2:Although I would say that it would probably still qualify, because some of these aren't like that massive right. So I would say it still qualifies if you're doing it even just at a restaurant scale. I mean if you're purposely contaminating a product in a restaurant and you're serving, to say, multiple people, and especially if it's without, like, uh, specific designation as to who gets it, you're just literally doing it just to get people sick, like I would say, that qualifies.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it does. I think it does. Now, that's just me now also, remember, I am coming from a restaurant owner kind of standpoint, right. So we've got the restaurant owner and you've got the manager, and then we have the customer in our little podcast trio here and we've all been all three. But from the restaurant owner standpoint, I guess that I have a little bit more different opinions, because that would kill my restaurant Absolutely anything like that if it were to get out.
Speaker 1:I don't have the money of a chain. When I had a couple of restaurants, I already had enough shit to deal with. I've got customers. I have customers that are freaking out over a fucking side of guacamole in 2016. That she still reminds me on today. She's like, yeah, well, if you open your restaurant again, don't forget the guacamole. It's just. I mean, it's not. It's just like that type of shit, right, like when we go to Chipotle or we go to wherever you want to go, and they forget a side of guac. You don't remember it four or five years, six years later. But going back to that is being on a restaurant owner. That would kill me. That would just wipe out the entire business.
Speaker 1:We have tons of chain that kind of stuff gets out of the press and true, but but you have chains that kill 200 fucking people and nothing had they're still in business oh, that's the, that's the economy of scale, right, and you're protected because you are so large true, but it's also the customers right. Would you go eat at a restaurant that just killed 200 people, whether you're across the country or not? I wouldn't, would you?
Speaker 2:well, here's the I mean we do it all the time I mean these E coli outbreaks. We just had an E coli thing with McDonald's it's in the news right now when some of their onions that they used on their quarter pounders, those diced onions, had E coli and they got, I think, a couple hundred people sick or something like that. But they say what's contain to this region? These like however many numbers of McDonald's and we've taken the quarter pounder off the menu at those locations, whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, that means that now they've eliminated the damage, like they've reduced the damage, I should say, to that area of the country and we've put in place like a remedy for it. So now, if you're a consumer, you're going, well, one, okay, maybe I won't need a quarter pounder, even if it's on the menu. But you're like, oh, it's just a quarter pounder, it was all the way over there, and like you know colorado or whatever, I'm on the east coast like I don't have to worry about it, whereas like if it's a smaller restaurant where you have like one, two, three stores that are all local, you just assume it's bad all the way through.
Speaker 3:Well, years ago didn't Chipotle have a massive problem with that E coli? They bounced back.
Speaker 1:Yes, I can't remember what there was Over the course of a couple years. I know that one was E coli, one was Listeria and they made you know tons of people sick or whatever.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's my point.
Speaker 1:But as a small business owner, you were already well, not me anymore, but we're, you know. We're worried about one yelp review, you know, and yelp could be absolutely banned. It's garbage, it's trash. Anybody that goes off a Yelp review, you suck, because that shit is so polluted that it's not even real. Anyways, moving on, but I'll tell you how to beat it. Anyways, we're already worried about a lot of stuff, right, customers already gauge us twice as hard. Customers are more willing to go on to social media and bitch about their, you know, simple, stupid shit. Oh, I got the wrong burrito again. This is this stocks and I'm never eating there again.
Speaker 1:So a small restaurant owner is already facing rising labor. Right, and good labor is already hard to find. And you're facing a ton of regulations, a ton of expenses in keeping up with those regulations licensing, insurance, permitting, building, all that other fun stuff. We're not going to go into that, but it's just a ton of money. So what are your margins? Like 7%, 6%, 2% margins. But you're also facing consumer. They don't have the money, right, cuff time, they don't have any money. They're looking for bargains and deals, which compacts, which you know impacts that bottom line. Now you're looking at what? Four percent. So you're only getting four percent out of every dollar and if anything happened, you're done, you're screwed you any kind of a blip?
Speaker 3:or a major adjustments, or whatever for example, you were talking about how people just want things cheap. We had actually, on the Fuzzy Things in the Corner of the Kitchen Facebook page recently posted an article from Fox 8 News. Mcdonald's largest fry producer closes their factory. Ceo blames $5 meals CEO blames $5 meals I mean he wants a $5 meal and it's like with the rising costs of running a restaurant, it's harder to be able to produce that and make, make, Wow.
Speaker 2:Although I'll say, when it comes to those kinds of large companies, like I'm sure the CEO didn't take a pay cut either, true?
Speaker 1:So yeah, true, but I'll, and I don't know. I would probably agree with you, but I know that, as a restaurant owner, a lot of times you don't even get paid well I would say that yeah, that's the difference between, like, small business and big business right small business?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. I would never say that about your small business owner. That's a completely different world. But yeah those large corporations, there's a whole lot of money being funneled up to a small group of people, right, so like for that big complaint about what us wanting stuff to not, us wanting it to not cost $15 for a Big Mac meal, being them thinking that's unreasonable. I think it's a joke, Like also.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you look at it. So, if you look at it, every single step does a profit. Oh, you have a bread maker, so let's just take one small step. Is the bun? You have the farmers that do the wheat, you got the sugar people and you got all these people for the ingredients. They all make a profit selling it. The bakery makes it. They have a profit, and in the meantime trucking companies, transportation is profiting too.
Speaker 1:Nobody does shit for free. So you got the farmer sends it. The farmer makes the money, the wheat haulers, they get the money. And then multiply that by all the ingredients, the bakery, and then you've got the meat. And then you've got all the ingredients ketchup and mustard and pickles and onion and then it gets to the central warehouse. Well, the warehousing, they have to show profit because each one is its own little business. So they sell it to the restaurant or they get it out to their regionals. The regionals will give it to their locals and then the locals will sell it to the restaurant and then the restaurant has to pay for the people and for the building and all that other stuff to make it and it's like a $2.89 cheeseburger, right.
Speaker 2:So everybody's made profit and I think that's why it's also like a fault, where you know small scale farming in this country is dying because there's no way that you can pay enough on those small-scale farms to actually get that profit margin with a farmer, because by the time it gets all the way through the rest of the production cycle that cheeseburger would have to be charged a lot, right. So that's why they were like big-scale farms. So now we're putting small-scale farmers out of business.
Speaker 3:Well, actually some farms get paid not to farm.
Speaker 1:But that goes back into the small business. So the small business, they don't have those big supply chains, they can't go get. Like their buns are $0.40, $0.50, $0.60 a piece, right, we can't get it at $0.10 a piece, like we can't do it.
Speaker 2:Well, and a big push also for a lot of the small scale restaurants to be more like farm to table and organic and all that Right and well, all that comes with an added cost.
Speaker 1:And I get it, but there's not. The only thing I would say about that and is that people don't want to fucking pay for it. Right, they don't? Yeah, a lot of listeners are going to be like, oh yeah, I would pay for it, right, they don't? Yeah, a lot of listeners are going to be like, oh yeah, I would pay for it. That's you. You're not the general public, you're.
Speaker 2:you know, you're a part of the public well, I would say it's dependent a lot large part of where you live, the demographic area, right well you.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean, if you go put it into indian village down in cincinnati, yes, you're going to make a ton of money. But how much money? But do you have enough clientele to keep your restaurant open? What seven days a week Competition are you running around, exactly right? So, with all that said, people that have restaurants for the masses, it's not a lot of money. And, yes, there's different variations of the restaurant industry. I get it, but for the masses, because that's usually the one that keeps the doors open, the amount of business that you have to have is a lot, and a lot of times, and with the current economic thing that's going on here, people are reeling back their spending and they're starting to go for the $5 and $10 meal, which even puts more pressure on the small business. So the overall effect of that is they close and there's a large number of small businesses, restaurants, especially food service that go out of business.
Speaker 1:Now, we were pretty fortunate we had, we were pretty busy and I just got tired of it and I'm like you screw this right, like I'm just done with restaurants. We were busy making good money, I'm just like I'm done. And then I got crazy and I said you know what, what happens if I just start a new name, a new name, brand new name, and we'll just write pandemic, brand new name. And that one got busy and I'm just like I'm so tired of restaurant, right, and then that's when I got out of my restaurant thing but customers suck.
Speaker 2:I mean to your point, I mean, yeah, starting up a restaurant, I mean especially in today's day and age, I mean it is a very small success rate. It's about 20% for restaurants to succeed within their first five years.
Speaker 1:Most of them go under.
Speaker 2:I think it was like 60% of restaurants fail within their first year?
Speaker 3:What about locations that people say are doomed, like oh another restaurant's going in there.
Speaker 1:That's 10.
Speaker 1:Let's see, I don't think so they stay in open you know, I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm gonna tell you and I'm very passionate about this I stuck at running businesses. I'm terrible, I'm horrible, I am. I'm really good at opening businesses, creating the concepts. I've done that five times already and I just can't get out of my own way in running the business. With that said, opening a business, a lot of people don't understand how they need to approach opening a business. A lot of people don't understand how they need to approach opening a business. Right, you have to be out there. You have to, you know, do a lot, you have to find connection.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Julie was instrumental. Right, julie came in and she was just going to do like I don't even know what she came in for. Oh yeah, she came in, yeah, right, yeah. And then all of a sudden we hit it off and I had her back there trying all sorts of stuff and I was, she gained like 10 pounds and I was just like, oh, here's some more, eat some more.
Speaker 1:But creating connections as a restaurant owner, and when you do those, you want to make sure that, hey, if I open the restaurant, can you do this for me and in turn, I'll do something? Right, like, I think, julie's deal. I was just like, hey, we're just starting out, I'll feed you, I'll feed you whatever you want, for however long, feed your family, whatever, and that way, if you like it, then you can report on it. What's the truth? And then Julie reached out and I reached out. Anyway, it became a whole big thing. But what that means is this Restaurant owners, when they open, they just think the customers are going to come and I don't think the location has to do anything.
Speaker 1:If we were at a terrible location location we had a door on this unit that used to be like I don't even know what it was. It was an office or something. I don't know what it was, but that was. We got busy because we garnered. I, as an owner, reached out, we made friends. We got those friends to say, hey, let's all be mutually invested in this, my success is your success, your success is my success. And Julie's like hey, what do you think about a tasting board? Sure, let's do it. So we spent I don't know it was a good eight weeks, once a week, eight weeks, and Julie picked out the crowd of local influencers, like that type thing, and we just sucked it up and we ate. I think it was 20 people or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I knew we had a limited amount.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was 20 meals every week for eight weeks and we didn't have the money. We were just starting. Times were hard, but it worked. So I think that the restaurant, the location I don't think has anything to do with it. I think it's the restaurant owner. You got to get out there. You got to make sure that people know who you are. You do with it. I think it's the restaurant owner. You got to get out there.
Speaker 2:You got to make sure that people know who you are you got to go out there and sample that food out? I would say that I mean there's something to say about location, because I mean you can sample out all you want. If there's only you know, 40 people living in town, then all your crowds, that could be great, right. But yeah, I think to a large part, there are way too many owners that think it's like easy, like oh, I'll just put together a decent menu, make it well, slap champagne on it, make it look all right. I'd swing open the doors and there she goes, like if you were going to come in, it's like no, it's about outreach. It's about getting out into the community, letting them actually know you, and not just as a restaurant but as an owner too.
Speaker 1:Like people want to know who they're giving money to and who they're supporting yeah, well, it also goes back to what kind of fucking menu do you have? Do you have a niche? Did you research? Did you find out what you don't have in your area? You can't go. Example the city that we opened up, that epokian, was, uh, in the macedonia area, and it burgers mcdonald wendy way back, had just come in. I think they came in a little later. You have cul Culver's, all the big names. Are you really going to open up a burger restaurant and go up against McDonald's or Wendy's? It's not going to work. It's not going to work. Is your menu thought out? Do you have sandwiches? What's to say sandwiches? Well, you got Jersey Mike's, you got you knowimmy john's, you got subway. All these sandwiches. Why are people going to go to you? They people are very creatures of habit if you have something that's not.
Speaker 2:We did baked potatoes and I think you can't succeed because I mean, you could just have the best sandwich joint in town. But it is going to be harder obviously at that point to get that. Get them in the door.
Speaker 1:And I think so, but that's true. But it's going to take people a long time to come around and come try your burgers. If you're in like a sub bar location, Right, and because it's cheaper rent, because you can't go get a great class A space where McDonald's is going to go, right, that's $37,000 a month. Obviously we're not going to do that. But just to start off, why don't you go open up, give something that's not around? We did baked potatoes. We did bloated fries. People loved them. We did burritos the size of your head or your arm.
Speaker 1:That's what got us popular, and then you could add on. Then people will know your flavor. Oh yeah, this is really good. And that's what they start to come to expect, because you're offering at least one item that's not readily available in any of your competition and you may only get 10%, but those are people that will come back and try something else because you had a good product. You see what I mean. So that's what that's all about. That's how you get your name in front of people. If it's going to be Colbert's McDonald's, Wendy's Burger King, Jack in the Box, Carl's Jr Wayback Burgers and Chris's Burgers, yeah, they're not coming to you. That's just the fact of the matter.
Speaker 2:That's why, most of the time, when you see those other burger joints that open up in town, well, what do they have that sets them apart from like fast food and all that? Well, the main thing is that most of them have a bar right.
Speaker 3:So now you're introducing the whole alcohol aspect of it, you're not going to go to wendy's or mcdonald's and and then, yeah, draw a different crowd in with that.
Speaker 2:And you also have people that just come for the bar sometimes and then, okay, okay, maybe they've had three, four drinks and they're like you know what, I could really use a burger, now Let me try one of those. And so you kind of like hook them differently than you would in just a normal takeout location.
Speaker 1:Basically, Agreed, alcohol. We didn't have alcohol. So I'm talking, I'm speaking from a place where we did a restaurant with no alcohol. Yes, you're right, so that was absolutely correct. Alcohol will bring people in. I do agree with that.
Speaker 3:If you're going to add alcohol to what you're providing. It is, like you said, a whole other set of problems. I, in the course of working in this community as a marketing person, I, in the course of working in this community as a marketing person, have met a lot of business owners, specifically restaurant owners, and they tell me some of their pain. There was a new restaurant owner in the area. They had never had a restaurant before and it was the owner's wife. She's like I never envisioned that I was going to be driving drunk people home. Now I think this was before the whole Uber thing. But you know, there's aspects of having, like, a restaurant that serve alcohol that she didn't even think of. I think when you're going into business for the first time, you just think about the good things, like oh, I'm going to make the food and I'm going to serve it and everybody loves food.
Speaker 2:You don't think about the pitfalls of added headaches, like you know, something like driving somebody drunk home, right, or having to call them a cab or whatever. I mean there's a liability aspect you're basically trying to offset there, right, um, but there's also an added cost to it. I mean, not only do you have to have the bar, you have to have extra stock always in place, so it's extra carrying cost. You have to have bartenders, people that know what they're doing with alcohol. You have to have the bar, you have to have extra stock always in place, so it's extra carrying cost. You have to have bartenders, people that know what they're doing with alcohol. You have to make sure they're trained properly, if not certified. You have to make sure the building's zoned in in certain states or whatever you're away from churches or schools to a certain amount of distance. You have to have a liquor or a liquor license or beer and wine license, whatever, and that cost money.
Speaker 3:I remember somebody who wanted to open a restaurant and they had already started the plans and everything and then they didn't even know how to get a liquor license and they were shocked at the cost and you got to do your research. If you're going to start something new, whatever the new thing is, you can't just open your doors and there's just so much to consider.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, that's the only offer so many liquor licenses in an area true and that changes, I think, per state or whatever I think, because most of the time states all govern their own alcohol like boards or like liquor boards, and they're all called controls. So different areas I don't think that's necessarily universal across the country is that they have a limited amount of liquor licenses. But I know in Ohio that's the way we hear it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, obviously that's where we are. So, I've just heard so many horror stories personally from business owners and sometimes they go to. There's tragic stories that have happened because of the stress involved, and I just think people just need to plan better. There's tragic stories that have happened because of the stress involved, and it's I just think people just need to plan better and and check around you have to know what you're walking into.
Speaker 1:The stress, the stress is real, the stress is real. There, they. There's three things that can alter a personality. One of them is trauma. Two is the near is when you're right up against dying and somehow you live, but I can, and the and the other one is the other one, but that which I would say it's still trauma. But yeah, probably, but trauma if your restaurant starts going south and you owe people money and you do this and you do that, like it forced us into chapter seven and that was horrible, it was, it was bad, the the you know you, you, you just got feelings of guilt and a lot of emotion. It's like an emotional pit fire, right A lot, and it's not for the weak-hearted, it's just not, because when you walk out your doors and you lock that door and you know that's the final time, you know you failed and that's all there is to it.
Speaker 2:I think for a lot of people it's similar to like losing, like a pet or a child, right where it is. When you open up your own concept, like it's your baby, like you put a ton of thought and energy and money most of the time into that concept and you had grandiose plans of growing it or whatever or having it last a long time, obviously you're not opening a business to be done in two years. It's just how it works Like losing that business, having it fail. I think it a lot for a lot of people like you kind of lose part of yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like a family member died.
Speaker 2:There's a grieving process and it's something that you have to overcome, and it's not flipping on a switch or flipping off a switch no, it's not again like you should be trying to put yourself in the best possible position prior to that, and that still doesn't guarantee you're going to work out, but at least you can say that you did everything within your power, right? I mean, there's always going to be some. There can always be some random shit that happens, situations out of control, the economy or whatever that can put you under. But at least if you go and prepare, you do your research beforehand, you talk to people that are in the industry before you get into those kind of situations at least what to expect overall and you can say that you really did your best and did everything you could with that one restaurant.
Speaker 1:We really did. We closed that restaurant, immensely popular. The supply chain ran out of food. It was right. We were in the middle of, I believe, we closed in August. We filed in August, so we actually we opened one January, january, yep, and we closed in August in 2020. There was no food none. Nobody had any food, not any of the warehouses. We didn't go to Costco, we went to Restaurant Depot, we went to the Broadliners and nobody had food. It just ran out, sent to retail stores like your Kroger's and your Giant Eagles and your Albertsons and stuff like that. But as far as the restaurants, we just ran out of food and there was none on the horizon. All of our protein was gone no chicken, no beef, nothing at all. So we're just like this, is it? I guess that that would be one of those one-off things, but it still sucks when you close it.
Speaker 3:There's been a lot of failures that have turned into wonderful things, like they say for the light bulb. There are so many reiterations of it. Steve Jobs had failed businesses, I think, sometimes restaurant owners or any business that's struggling and has to close. Sometimes you have to reinvent yourself and figure out what could we learn and what can we do to go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, you see that all the time with lifers in the industry right, I mean there's so many by the restaurant owners I've dealt with have they've closed one, they open up another. You know they get a different partner. They whatever jump in partnership with somebody else. So they're constantly trying to reinvent themselves or concepts and try different things, because this is what they enjoy doing at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:The entrepreneurial spirit that will never die, right, and even if you have a successful concept.
Speaker 2:Even if you have a successful restaurant, most of those people still want to get out and bounce to like another, another thing. What else is on the horizon?
Speaker 1:let's try something I agree with that 100 because that's how I was. I would get a restaurant going. I told you I already suck at running them. I I get them going, I create the concept, I'll get them going. They'll make tons of money and I've learned that. I've just got to be able to find somebody to hand it off to. But what's the hard part?
Speaker 3:There is something very unique about a business that serves food to people. It is actually, if you do it right, much easier than, let's say, for example, if you sell insurance, a new insurance office opening up in town, because obviously we post when on the other site that I operate. If a new business is coming to town and let's say it's something like insurance, I just use that as an example and do people get excited about that? No, but you even have a hint that a new restaurant is going in somewhere and people lose their minds because they can go back to that place several times a week multiple times I mean, but like it's also.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just the nature of food, right. I mean one, of course, we all need it to survive, and you have a built-in audience of, like, everybody wants food, wants food, right. But it's also one of the few things that we can give to ourselves on a daily basis that release endorphins that make us happy, and so, of course, if you hear about a new place that's gonna like, basically make you happy, potentially make you happy, like why wouldn't you be excited, right?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, I mean I'm right there with him like that there, and that's the nice part about being in the food service industry is that aspect of it is like the fact that, like it just there's not much better than creating something, whether it be food or drink, giving it to a customer and like seeing just that rush coming over of just pure, like joy and just enjoyment of that meal or drink, whatever you create the first bite or the first sip is always the best you know what, what really, as as a chef and a former restaurant owner, I can tell you mostly as a chef, though and everybody out in chef land will agree that chefs are we are a different kind of breed and, were Anthony Bourdain coined it best, were the misfits of the world that just happened to fall into a kitchen, and that's where we stay, good or bad, but one of the reasons and it keeps calling you back, no matter how much you try to get away from it.
Speaker 1:sometimes it does because, at the end of the day, we see people on the best and the worst days of their lives. Right, we see people on some of the worst days of their lives. I mean, we're not doctors, that's probably going to be worse, I agree, but when they come in for funerals, we feed them during celebration. We feed them during the romance or the proposal. We also see them right after the divorce. We see people every day, in almost every facet of life, and we feed them. And the one thing that you want to do as a true culinarian whether you're a cook or whether you're a chef, or whether whatever title you have is you want that person to, even for a moment, just take them to a place that they can just breathe, they can just be a little happier than what they are. Or we can exhilarate the happy people, we can give that a couple of bumps up.
Speaker 2:Give an escape for the people that need it too. And we can, because God knows we all need it sometimes.
Speaker 1:You know, and that's true, that's true. But people go to restaurants and this has become lost. This is part of what I was talking about earlier. If you have a restaurant and you and all the chains everybody does you know this is cliche in the in the industry create the experience right. Every single chain has that quote unquote third place, it's the third, whatever it's the experience. But when you actually provide an experience for a customer, that customer will not forget that experience and they won't.
Speaker 2:They will come back to you and you have that's what, that's what the adrenaline, that's what the where the kitchen junkie kind of comes in because you're happy, because you're, you're coming and you come from the ownership and like back of house side more and like I'll say it, even more than that, with the experiences, what your front of house personnel does for you, and you build that connection with them where every time you come in they know your name, you know their name, like something about them, you know about their kids, whatever, like that's all building community and connection and part of that experience as well.
Speaker 1:Agreed, agreed and part of that experience as well.
Speaker 3:Agreed, Agreed. I think in the restaurant we need to start looking for the exit sign for this podcast.
Speaker 1:Already.
Speaker 3:That's what happens.
Speaker 2:Kevin, I did want to quickly retouch because while we were talking about starting up restaurants and all that, I did remember a documentary going back to the agro-terrorism, the food terrorism, and the documentary is called poisoned it's the dirty truth about your food. So I think it's on that, netflix or whatever. But they talk about basically. They focus, I think, primarily on that one, if I remember correctly, on the lettuce agriculture and all the outbreaks that have happened recently and what a big part of that is and how they do cattle farming nearby. So you get like feces gets into the water supply, that gets sprayed onto the lettuce. All that and I think that'd be an interesting thing to maybe touch on. I think that'd be an interesting thing to maybe touch on. But I think it goes towards that agro-terrorism, because these companies are putting profit over safety, because they can cram all this into a small area, so they maximize their efficiency and like how much they're pumping out, but it's at the cost of these deadly outbreaks that are killing people every year.
Speaker 1:Well, true, but that part agro-terrorism, well, yeah, true, but then they just create a company that will create a vegetable wash that you dilute, but if you get it on your hands it'll burn you. So you just go out and go buy their vegetable wash and you can soak your vegetables, your lettuce and all of your vegetables in it for a couple of minutes and it'll destroy all the bacteria. Right, you wash it and you got to soak it in this wad, this fruit and vegetable wash. Uh, after it's diluted, you put it's one of them, automatic dispenser things. Some the chains usually have them because that shit's expensive as fuck. Yeah, you just put it in there. But if you get it onto your hand when you have to change the, change the bucket, it'll burn you. It's an acid. How does that work? Yeah, so that'll be next time, or some other time we can watch that and comment on it yeah, if you guys ever't seen it, I definitely recommend it.
Speaker 2:Anybody that's listening go watch it. It's a pretty fascinating look at some food production that you don't think about very often.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely check it out. What is it Poisoned?
Speaker 2:Poisoned. The dirty truth about your food.
Speaker 1:All right, yep, I'll watch it. And then Julie was mentioning that there's this show called the Bear. Is that it, julie, the show? Okay, yeah, it's a show.
Speaker 3:They just finished the second season. It won a bunch of awards and some business owners can't watch it, or restaurant owners because it's too close to their reality.
Speaker 2:I can't remember Was that HBO or Showtime?
Speaker 3:You know, I never can remember where, if they search, they can see.
Speaker 2:Everybody can find it.
Speaker 3:It may be on multiple platforms but it's very popular and the main character is a main character from the show Shameless. There was a character on there called Lip and people really seem to like him. He seems like a regular guy, not like arrogant and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Maybe we should combine that with one of our episodes about reviews and Yelp and all that Because we could call it shameless, because it's just like everybody that goes on Yelp and reviews.
Speaker 3:And it sounds like Kevin has a lot to say about Yelp.
Speaker 1:A lot. You know what. We're not even going to go into that.
Speaker 2:No, that'll be a future. That'll be a future.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1:It must be real, no it's dramatic, it is just it's be. Everybody in the industry knows the only people that seem to go by it are parents. Just get, get. The only thing I'm going to tell you restaurant owners is here's what you do. You hold a one-star sale and you go out there, give me a one-star review and tell me how much my restaurant sucked, and don't hold back and just make it juicy, and I'll give you this burger for five bucks with a side of fries, because then, no matter whatever said, is it real or was it part of that sale? So I'm going to say just go in there.
Speaker 2:I like the people that embrace it, like I've seen, restaurants said they'll have like their servers uniform. They'll be wearing a t-shirt and it'll be like their one star review that names that server Like they all were server, were service of all time, never refilled my drinks, whatever, and they'll actually just wear that as their uniform, which I think is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then just say that the worst review, we'll put on a t-shirt and uh, we'll give you food for a month, something like that we need to encourage bad reviews.
Speaker 3:I mean a lot of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if people look one out of ten, one out of twenty will actually leave a good review. Nobody leaves good reviews unless that is your profession and you're a professional Yelper or you're somebody who just is always so addicted to reviewing. But those are extremely small percentage of the population.
Speaker 2:But people will leave a bad review, which is a whole other business.
Speaker 3:I think we're starting to get into another I think so.
Speaker 2:I think I think we should leave that for the future. I was thinking the same thing all right, we'll catch it up.
Speaker 1:We'll catch it up next time.
Speaker 3:I'm wanting more as always rate comment review.
Speaker 2:Shoot us a little message. Tell us what you want to hear about. Tell us what you thought about the episode.
Speaker 1:We really appreciate your feedback yeah, what do you want to hear as a, as a, as a employee, owner, manager, customer? What do you want to hear? What?
Speaker 2:you want to chat about shots, tell us. We all sound like fucking idiots. You know I mean.
Speaker 1:Whatever, it doesn't matter nobody cares, whatever, just just send something over and then we'll be like we got called a bunch of assholes, hooray that's it. We'll shut down the podcast all, right until then, bye, bye have a good one, bye.
